Universal Code of Conduct[wysig bron]
I am getting irritated with European users with a master plan to assist African languages. Not one of them worked or will ever work since you guys simply do no understand African culture. Regards. Oesjaar (kontak) 21:03, 20 Januarie 2021 (UTC)
- What I'm interested in, is basically what would happen if a violation takes place and all of the administrators and bureaucrats casually avoid or ignore the situation? And, who is going to check it? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? as the old Latin proverb goes? In other words, I'm merely thinking of what the Croatian Wikipedia was accused of almost 7 years ago, and counting. Oesjaar told me the plug could easily be pulled on the whole project if no-one co-operates.
- So, we see a beautiful Code of Conduct on an immaculate piece of paper, but not always much sensible or effective implementation. But that's probably a minor issue: It seems a dispute over language (or rather, the ultimate showdown between American monolinguism vs. European multilinguism) is raging at the moment. It seems Brexit is finally implemented (oops, was that an insult?). Szkoda, że nie znam polskiego. Suidpunt (kontak) 22:03, 20 Januarie 2021 (UTC)
- Oesjaar, ek sit in Europa, Voyageur, Jcwf, Anrie en JCBrand ook. OK, hulle is stil, maar hulle was baie betrokke hier. Groete. -- SpesBona 22:10, 20 Januarie 2021 (UTC)
- Sören, dit is nie wat ek sê nie. Elke tweede Dinsdagaand is ek in 'n videokonferensie met die WikimediaZA Stigtingraad. Dan bespreek ons onder andere enige kommunikasie wat vanaf Wikimedia Internasionaal of ander streke aan ons gestuur is. Daar word baie projekte geloods en fondse aan bestee deur die Stigting. Daar is net te veel van die projekte wat dinge in Afrika wil aanspreek, (edele gedagte) maar die kruks is dat ons as plaaslike stigting die werk moet doen, as vrywilligers... In Afrika doen die mense nie vrywilligers werk nie, hulle glo as ek werk betaal jy my - punt.
- Ek as gebruiker kan nie eintlik aan een ding dink wat hulle (die spesiale projekte) gedoen het wat die werk vir my makliker maak nie. Tewens, dit word al hoe moeiliker om nuwe gebruikers op te lei... Aan die einde van die jaar is die Afr. Wikipedia se jaareindfunksie, ek kry R 5000 om 'n funksie te reël vir ons gemeenskap. Die mense se vliegtuigkaartjies kos meer as dit. Julle is onskuldig. Groete! Oesjaar (kontak) 05:52, 21 Januarie 2021 (UTC)
- (ek skryf hele oggend hieraan, bietjie van die punt af) Another problem is the "reading" of the Conduct itself. If it's just a guideline for behaving well, no problem. But some people will take it to the extreme and could misuse this Conduct, to such a point that no debate is longer possible. The term "Safe spaces", for Europeans like yourself, is just completely foreign.
- Some folks and peoples (that is, ethnicity) prefers group cohesion above individualism in a hostile environment. There is just one correct answer, one correct rule for all. And there is order. And unity. To challenge leadership is a luxury. Or, it is by now general knowledge that "losing face", in some cultures, isn't always seen in the East as a virtue. And, as a journalist and entrepreneur in Hong Kong (Stephen Vines) had pointed out time and time again, this very part had detrimental effects on business and foreign investment.
- On the other hand, in a more liberal environment, the above is heavily frowned upon. It is seen as crab-mentality. In an "oop gesprek" (open discussion), in the spirit of N.P. van Wyk Louw, to find as many options and answers (especially contradicting one another), for the sake of the community, is seen as a virtue. No matter what the collateral damage to attain that goal; as the Dutch saying goes: "Waar (hout) gehakt wordt vallen spaanders". As the grandchild of Dutchies, I can clearly state that bluntness, 'mild exaggeration' and directness have been part of their very culture for centuries (and it's very amusing!). As is the Dutch Wikipedia today. It's not in everyone's taste, especially among the English and the French using indirect sentences to spare someone's feelings, or wrapping an awful and upsetting truth in vibrant colours. It's just not done!
- So, when you have all of these cultures under one roof, the uninitiated from other cultures will be shocked, for sure.
- Then, there is also the perspective.
- In many English dissertations, especially those written in South Africa, a hypothesis is stated, followed by using as many "like-minded" sources. More like: "I think the sky is pink, because of points 1,2,3." No resources from other languages are consulted, no original documents are used or compared, no other perspectives are respected. A lopsided essay, at its best, granted cum laude. For us, or against us. Dualism or duality par excellence. No grey areas. No middle ground.
- The Dutch, however, prefer to take the views from their opponents, only to strenghten their own arguments.
- The French have a very philosophical twist to their work - the keywords "sustainability" and "brotherhood" popping up somewhere.
- The Germans - well, you won't find them in the armchair. They are out there in the open field, in the dense jungles, prompting questions to the unsuspecting locals. Only after they have reached 500 different answers after two years of full acculturation and being accepted by the tribe, they finally come to a conclusion and head back to Frankfurt am Main: the answer is usually some common premordial starting point predating 5000 B.C.
- @Oesjaar, Suidpunt, SpesBona, en Aliwal2012: Thank you for your engagement. You are right, I do not understand African culture. This is why your community was contacted, we want to get feedback from the users that are engaged in a community and can offer our team a different view and a different perspective. My goal is to get as much feedback, ideas, worries and arguments as possible, in order to be able to present your views to my team and people responsible for creating the UCoC and its framework. MNadzikiewicz (WMF) (kontak) 11:51, 24 Januarie 2021 (UTC)
- You are most welcome to set up a video conference with me at firstname.lastname@example.org Regards. Oesjaar (kontak) 12:07, 24 Januarie 2021 (UTC)
Universal Code of Conduct News – Issue 2[wysig bron]
Universal Code of Conduct News
Issue 2, July 2021Read the full newsletter
Welcome to the second issue of Universal Code of Conduct News! This newsletter will help Wikimedians stay involved with the development of the new code and will distribute relevant news, research, and upcoming events related to the UCoC.
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