Bespreking:Hartswater

Vertaling van townships

Can I add a section to the infoboks about the town's township(s), if so, can someone give me the correct translation for it?--Bezuidenhout (kontak) 15:57, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Nowadays we simply use "townships" in Afrikaans, no translation. Anrie (kontak) 16:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

And what would be plural? Townshipe?--Bezuidenhout (kontak) 17:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Kan mens nie ook praat van 'n plakkerskamp nie? Of is dit iets anders? In daardie geval sou die meervoud plakkerskampe wees. — Adriaan90 (Bespreking • Bydraes) 17:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm slightly worried becuase whatever name chosen I will use in many (almost all) south african stad en dorpe articles.– Hierdie ongetekende kommentaar is deur Africa South (Bespreking • Bydraes) gelewer.

If it is as I wonder — that township and plakkerskamp is the same thing — I think it would be better to go for the more Afrikaans version of the word, i.e. plakkerskamp, because township is definitely blatantly English. Otherwise if it has a different meaning then you should not use a different word for what you are trying to say. — Adriaan90 (Bespreking • Bydraes) 17:22, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Africa South, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to refer to the town community, by saying township, or to the town as in that it is a squattercamp (informal settlement)? I have used my dictionary now, and the Afrikaans translation of township is strictly:

• stads- of dorpsgemeenskap
• dorpsgebied
• dorp of dorpie
• stadswyk of dorpswyk
• stadsaanleg
• stadsuitleg

- according to Bosman, Van der Merwe, Hiemstra: Tweetalige Woordeboek (1984)

According to Odendal, Schoonees, Swanepoel, Du Toit, Booyens: Verklarende Handwoordeboek vd Afrikaanse Taal (HAT) (1991), a person who is known as a plakker (squatter) lives in strictly a plakkersdorp. Obviously this book is outdated and what it says is not relevant to what we are discussing now. People today speak of plakkerskamp or informele nedersetting when they refer to a squatteramp or an informal settlement (a place where people live in huts constructed of scrap material). It may be that township has also come to mean plakkerskamp. So if you are referring to squattercamp, use "plakkerskamp" for being clear, but if you simply refer to the dorpsgemeenskap, then use one of the translations above. I don't think township is today clear enough on what it means, as 25 years ago it evidently meant something completely different from what it is meaning now, according to those three editors of that dictionary I have here. — Adriaan90 (Bespreking • Bydraes) 09:24, 11 April 2009 (UTC)]

I am not reffering to a squater camp, but about since every South African city/town has a township, not a squater camp, and each one has a name. For example: Ladybrand is the town, while the nearby township is called Manyatseng. One could say Soweto is a Township of Johannesburg. But what I am trying to say is that the apartheid style areas designated for non-whites are the townships that I am trying to include in the infoboxs. Am I making sense :S Bezuidenhout (kontak) 09:32, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The townships I'm talking about have formal (although small) housing with often running water, just have a look on google maps for an example :) --Bezuidenhout (kontak) 09:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

For an example here is 28°40′S 27°26′E Marquard. Observe the town and it's township. --Bezuidenhout (kontak) 09:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure I do understand, but if I do, I think you mean that where ever you have a South African town, there are squattercamps surrounding it. You will not refer to the town itself as a squattercamp. Let me explain through this hierarchy:

• South Africa
  • Provinces e.g. Western Cape
    • Metropolitan areas (cities) e.g. City of Cape Town
      • Suburbs e.g. Strand
        • Surrounding informal settlements, e.g. Nomzamo, Lwandle, Rusthof

I am not sure about the hierarchy or the names I used, but if you understand what I am trying to say, the city will be the Cape Town, the town will be a suburb like Strand, and the plakkerskampe are like Nomzamo, Lwandle and Rusthof. Again I am not sure if these are in fact plakkerskampe, I am just mentioning so you can understand. Strand is not a township, it's the plakkerskampe surrounding it, and so we do not need to use the word township, we can simply say Strand is a dorp (town) and Nomzamo is an informele nedersetting / plakkerskamp (informal settlement / squattercamp). — Adriaan90 (Bespreking • Bydraes) 09:56, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

But what about formal settlement squater camps? They have lines roads and homes are all made of the same material. Check on google maps at any town (not city) of south africa and when I see them I see a town such a Marquard, Upingotn, Bethule etc. and then next to the town is a former designated area for non-whites during apartheid. What I am trying to say is that from what I see is that most towns in South Africa have a 'white' section (the actual town) and then a 'non-white' section, which has formal housing, i'll try and list some examples below: --Bezuidenhout (kontak) 14:29, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

• Bloemfontein: Kagisanong
• Welkom: Thabong
• Odendaalsrus: Kutlwanong
• Kroonstad: Maokeng
• Vereeniging: Sharpeville
• Joburg: Soweto, Katlehong
• Kempton park: Tembisa
• Witbank: Kwaguqa
• East London: Mdantsane
• etc.--Bezuidenhout (kontak) 14:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Die tradisionele benaming was lokasie, maar die term is deesdae onaanvaarbaar. Graaf (kontak) 20:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I would prefer terms like "swart woonbuurte" (black neighborhoods). Voyageur (kontak) 21:12, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

But then again one could call Hillbrow a black neighborhood, and many townships (like in the northern cape) have Coloureds, and Lenasia is one of many examples of an asian township. And also, many black middle-class now live in white suburbs, that could also be contraversal calling it a black neighborhood (relates to segregation). --Bezuidenhout (kontak) 21:15, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Like I said above: "township" is perfectly acceptable in this specific instance, with reference to the Pharos 2007 bilingual dictionary. Anrie (kontak) 21:29, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Would it be more acceptable to say naby townships in the infoboks?--Bezuidenhout (kontak) 15:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I just wonder if the infobox is the correct place for this information. Why not just add the sentence "Die township [naam] is naby die stad/dorp geleë" to the article itself? Anrie (kontak) 17:47, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I guess that would be better. And would i say (for example) Die township Soweto, or do I say Die township van Soweto. And what if it's plural?--Bezuidenhout (kontak) 18:01, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

"Die township Soweto" is correct. The plural is "townships" [1]. Anrie (kontak) 18:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Stigting

English wikipedia says that the town was laid out in 1948, while this link says 1934. (the link is the northern cape website). --Bezuidenhout (kontak) 16:03, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd go with the date from the Northern Cape site, at least our date'd be sourced, then. Anrie (kontak) 16:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)